This is the weekly discussion of the students enrolled in ENG 3318 Survey of British Literature I at Texas Wesleyan University, Fall 2011.
Friday, October 21, 2011
Donne, Herrick, and Marvell
How would you compare and contrast the approach taken to love poetry by these three poets? What seems to be important to each? Make specific references to the poetry in your response, please.
Donne’s approach to love is very sensual, and, as we discussed in class, written in a question and answer style. For example, in The Undertaking, Donne makes the reader wonder what is that thing suggested in line 1: “I have done one braver thing.” Donne then answers it in the end of the stanza: “Which is, to keep that hid.” In addition, Donne uses several apostrophes in his poems, that is, speaking to another who is not usually addressed or cannot respond. Donne seems to view love making two people one. In Herrick’s approach, he seems to view love in comparison to many things in nature: “Comets we see by night, whose shagg’d portents / Fortell the coming of some dire events / Or some full flame which with a pride aspires, / Throwing about his wild and active fires.” Herrick does not seem to use the question and answer method as did Donne, but he still discusses the idea of love in a way that is similar to Donne’s. In Marvell’s poetry, he again uses nature to express love: “Meantime, whilst every verdant thing / Itself does at thy beauty charm, / Reform the errors of the spring; / Make that the tulips may have share / Of sweetness, seeing they are fair.” His most used metaphor, among the poems we read, deals with a mower in order to express the idea of love among other suggested meanings.
All three poets use sensuality in their poems, describing sexual passion and seduction. However, the way in which this sensuality is used differs with each poet.
Donne writes about seduction and uses sexual images in works such as The Flea, but he is also able to use a language to describe a love that goes beyond the physical. In A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning, Donne portrays a love between he and his beloved that withstands distance and separation, “Our two souls therefore, which are one,/Though I must go, endure not yet/A breach, but an expansion,/Like gold to airy thinness beat.” (Donne lines 21-24).
Herrick also uses a sensual nature to describe sexual pleasure in his poetry. Upon the Loss of His Mistresses and The Vine are both pieces that use language to illustrate physical desire, “I dreamed this mortal part of mine/Was metamorphosed to a vine,/Which, crawling one and every way,/Enthralled my dainty Lucia” (Herrick lines 1-4). Herrick does use the image of nature to compare love and pleasure. Corinna’s Going A-Maying and To the Virgins, to Make Much of Time are both poems that incorporate nature to illustrate the freshness and newness of spring and its comparison with love and desire. Unlike Donne, Herrick’s love poetry seems to be physical and superficial in nature, without evidence that his personal love contains a deeper meaning.
Marvell is another poet who uses sexual desire as a common theme in his poetry. Marvell’s poetry is also characteristic of the “carpe diem” theme, by using seduction and sexual persuasiveness for his gains, “Let us roll all our strength and all/Our sweetness up into one ball,/And tear out pleasures with rough strife/Thorough the iron gates of life;” (Marvell lines 41-44). Like Herrick, Marvell uses the nature image when referring to love.
Although Donne, Herrick, and Marvell all write about passion, desire and love, each poet has his own way of describing love by using common metaphors and images to help the reader understand his love poetry.
John Donne directs his poetry towards the aspect of love. He challenges the reader with a question, then produces the answer within the work. Many of his poems seem to be playful and contain sarcasm, for example, lines 17-19 in “Song,” “No where / Lives a women true, and fair. / If thou find’st one, let me know.” Robert Herrick tends to focus his poetry much more on nature and the body, “I dreamed this mortal part of mine / Was metamorphosed to a vine / ... Methought, her long small legs and thighs / I with my tendrils did surprise; / Her belly, buttocks, and her waist” (lines 1-7). I think Herrick is much more explicit in his use of metaphors and language to derive a more sexual connotation in his poems (or at least it’s more obvious to me.) Andrew Marvell also has an overall theme of sexuality linked with metaphors of nature. For example in “Damon the Mower,” “This heat the sun could never raise, / Nor Dog Star so inflame the days; / It from an higher beauty grow’th, / Which burns the fields and mowers both;” (lines 17-20). Each poet creates sensual, passionate poems which are different and beautiful in their own way.
Donne's approach to love is quite similar in all his love poetry. He tends to speak of him and his lady as being one. "And in this flea our two bloods mingled be." Any references made to an outside party is usually regarded with indifference. It is just him and his lady, no one else is of consequence.
Herrick is mostly concerned with the physical and earthly love of his women. His poetry takes on comparison to nature approach. In The Vine, his first few lines says it all, "I dreamed this mortal part of mine/ Was metamorphosed to a vine,/ Which, crawling one and every way,/ Enthralled my dainty Lucia." This is where he and Donne differ. Herrick talks about seizing the moment and living while they're young. There is no mention of anything spiritually or emotionally deeper than that.
Marvell and Herrick are similar in using nature to describe their love. Marvell's poetry goes through the stages of life. He and his lady are young, and he implies that the two should not waste another moment since time is limited and they will one day grow old and die. He says in To His Coy Mistress, "And yonder all before us lie/ Deserts of vast eternity./ Thy beauty shall no more be found,/ Nor, in thy marble vault, shall sound... And your quaint honor turn to dust,/ And into ashes all my lust."
Your answer really does encompass what the poets true nature towards love poetry is. It seems like there is a transition from one into the other in terms of style. Donne speaks of love, while Herrick goes into nature and the physical, and finally Marvell going through the stages of life.
All three poets use very sensual language in there writing to describe the different nuances of love, though they all managed to create their own distinct style in presenting the concept of love.
Donne, uses intense emotion in his works to describe the intense love felt by his characters. For instance, "The Funeral" is a sonnet of strong emotions, the writer is leaving behind someone he loved and who loved him greatly and this work is him saying good-bye to her.
Herrick, is more concerned with love that is grounded in reality instead of spirituality as Donne tends to lean. The book describes the love as something we must attack and pursue in the here and now before it is to late. In "To the virgin, to make much time" he writes, "Gather ye rosebuds while ye may/Old time is still a-flying;/and this same flower that smiles today./tomorrow will be dying"
Marvell's love poems are often between the flesh and spirit, or physical sex and platonic love, or idealizing courtship and the ravages of time. "But at my back I always hear/Time's winged chariot hurrying near; /And yonder all before us lie/Deserts of vast eternity./Thy beauty shall no more be found,/Nor, in thy marble vault, shall sound/My echoing song; then worms shall try/That long preserv'd virginity,/And your quaint honour turn to dust,/And into ashes all my lust./The grave's a fine and private place,/But none I think do there embrace." This quote shows how love is fleeting on this earth and how time is the enemy of our love here and now.
I am glad you brought in the idea of Marvell's "carpe diem" within his poetry. I had forgotten this was a big theme for him within his works. After our class discussion, it makes a lot more sense that the urgency is seen within his words. Urgency for sexual desires and urgency for living are both present.
I forgot that Donne uses the question and answer format in his poetry. In each of his poems he asks a question and then provides the answer, even if that answer is not obviously apparent to the reader. I had forgotten about this aspect of Donne's poetry until I read these posts.
Gabby, I like the way you said Donne writes about his lady being connected with him as one. Your choice of quote also made it clear to me that he does do that. You also incorporated good quotes that show how Marvell and Herrick are similar in their poetry. After our discussion in class and reading what you said about Marvell, I do see that his poems go through stages of life. I really like that you pointed that out.
Jill, I really like the quote you used by Marvell, showing his seize the day attitude towards love that seems to be always fleeting. Although I don't know if he thinks love is fleeting or lust.
10 comments:
Donne’s approach to love is very sensual, and, as we discussed in class, written in a question and answer style. For example, in The Undertaking, Donne makes the reader wonder what is that thing suggested in line 1: “I have done one braver thing.” Donne then answers it in the end of the stanza: “Which is, to keep that hid.” In addition, Donne uses several apostrophes in his poems, that is, speaking to another who is not usually addressed or cannot respond. Donne seems to view love making two people one.
In Herrick’s approach, he seems to view love in comparison to many things in nature: “Comets we see by night, whose shagg’d portents / Fortell the coming of some dire events / Or some full flame which with a pride aspires, / Throwing about his wild and active fires.” Herrick does not seem to use the question and answer method as did Donne, but he still discusses the idea of love in a way that is similar to Donne’s.
In Marvell’s poetry, he again uses nature to express love: “Meantime, whilst every verdant thing / Itself does at thy beauty charm, / Reform the errors of the spring; / Make that the tulips may have share / Of sweetness, seeing they are fair.” His most used metaphor, among the poems we read, deals with a mower in order to express the idea of love among other suggested meanings.
All three poets use sensuality in their poems, describing sexual passion and seduction. However, the way in which this sensuality is used differs with each poet.
Donne writes about seduction and uses sexual images in works such as The Flea, but he is also able to use a language to describe a love that goes beyond the physical. In A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning, Donne portrays a love between he and his beloved that withstands distance and separation, “Our two souls therefore, which are one,/Though I must go, endure not yet/A breach, but an expansion,/Like gold to airy thinness beat.” (Donne lines 21-24).
Herrick also uses a sensual nature to describe sexual pleasure in his poetry. Upon the Loss of His Mistresses and The Vine are both pieces that use language to illustrate physical desire, “I dreamed this mortal part of mine/Was metamorphosed to a vine,/Which, crawling one and every way,/Enthralled my dainty Lucia” (Herrick lines 1-4). Herrick does use the image of nature to compare love and pleasure. Corinna’s Going A-Maying and To the Virgins, to Make Much of Time are both poems that incorporate nature to illustrate the freshness and newness of spring and its comparison with love and desire. Unlike Donne, Herrick’s love poetry seems to be physical and superficial in nature, without evidence that his personal love contains a deeper meaning.
Marvell is another poet who uses sexual desire as a common theme in his poetry. Marvell’s poetry is also characteristic of the “carpe diem” theme, by using seduction and sexual persuasiveness for his gains, “Let us roll all our strength and all/Our sweetness up into one ball,/And tear out pleasures with rough strife/Thorough the iron gates of life;” (Marvell lines 41-44). Like Herrick, Marvell uses the nature image when referring to love.
Although Donne, Herrick, and Marvell all write about passion, desire and love, each poet has his own way of describing love by using common metaphors and images to help the reader understand his love poetry.
John Donne directs his poetry towards the aspect of love. He challenges the reader with a question, then produces the answer within the work. Many of his poems seem to be playful and contain sarcasm, for example, lines 17-19 in “Song,” “No where / Lives a women true, and fair. / If thou find’st one, let me know.”
Robert Herrick tends to focus his poetry much more on nature and the body, “I dreamed this mortal part of mine / Was metamorphosed to a vine / ... Methought, her long small legs and thighs / I with my tendrils did surprise; / Her belly, buttocks, and her waist” (lines 1-7). I think Herrick is much more explicit in his use of metaphors and language to derive a more sexual connotation in his poems (or at least it’s more obvious to me.)
Andrew Marvell also has an overall theme of sexuality linked with metaphors of nature. For example in “Damon the Mower,”
“This heat the sun could never raise, / Nor Dog Star so inflame the days; / It from an higher beauty grow’th, / Which burns the fields and mowers both;” (lines 17-20).
Each poet creates sensual, passionate poems which are different and beautiful in their own way.
Donne's approach to love is quite similar in all his love poetry. He tends to speak of him and his lady as being one. "And in this flea our two bloods mingled be." Any references made to an outside party is usually regarded with indifference. It is just him and his lady, no one else is of consequence.
Herrick is mostly concerned with the physical and earthly love of his women. His poetry takes on comparison to nature approach. In The Vine, his first few lines says it all, "I dreamed this mortal part of mine/ Was metamorphosed to a vine,/ Which, crawling one and every way,/ Enthralled my dainty Lucia." This is where he and Donne differ. Herrick talks about seizing the moment and living while they're young. There is no mention of anything spiritually or emotionally deeper than that.
Marvell and Herrick are similar in using nature to describe their love. Marvell's poetry goes through the stages of life. He and his lady are young, and he implies that the two should not waste another moment since time is limited and they will one day grow old and die. He says in To His Coy Mistress, "And yonder all before us lie/ Deserts of vast eternity./ Thy beauty shall no more be found,/ Nor, in thy marble vault, shall sound... And your quaint honor turn to dust,/ And into ashes all my lust."
Mariah,
Your answer really does encompass what the poets true nature towards love poetry is. It seems like there is a transition from one into the other in terms of style. Donne speaks of love, while Herrick goes into nature and the physical, and finally Marvell going through the stages of life.
All three poets use very sensual language in there writing to describe the different nuances of love, though they all managed to create their own distinct style in presenting the concept of love.
Donne, uses intense emotion in his works to describe the intense love felt by his characters. For instance, "The Funeral" is a sonnet of strong emotions, the writer is leaving behind someone he loved and who loved him greatly and this work is him saying good-bye to her.
Herrick, is more concerned with love that is grounded in reality instead of spirituality as Donne tends to lean. The book describes the love as something we must attack and pursue in the here and now before it is to late. In "To the virgin, to make much time" he writes, "Gather ye rosebuds while ye may/Old time is still a-flying;/and this same flower that smiles today./tomorrow will be dying"
Marvell's love poems are often between the flesh and spirit, or physical sex and platonic love, or idealizing courtship and the ravages of time. "But at my back I always hear/Time's winged chariot hurrying near; /And yonder all before us lie/Deserts of vast eternity./Thy beauty shall no more be found,/Nor, in thy marble vault, shall sound/My echoing song; then worms shall try/That long preserv'd virginity,/And your quaint honour turn to dust,/And into ashes all my lust./The grave's a fine and private place,/But none I think do there embrace." This quote shows how love is fleeting on this earth and how time is the enemy of our love here and now.
Jill,
I am glad you brought in the idea of Marvell's "carpe diem" within his poetry. I had forgotten this was a big theme for him within his works. After our class discussion, it makes a lot more sense that the urgency is seen within his words. Urgency for sexual desires and urgency for living are both present.
Lisa and Mariah-
I forgot that Donne uses the question and answer format in his poetry. In each of his poems he asks a question and then provides the answer, even if that answer is not obviously apparent to the reader. I had forgotten about this aspect of Donne's poetry until I read these posts.
Gabby,
I like the way you said Donne writes about his lady being connected with him as one. Your choice of quote also made it clear to me that he does do that. You also incorporated good quotes that show how Marvell and Herrick are similar in their poetry. After our discussion in class and reading what you said about Marvell, I do see that his poems go through stages of life. I really like that you pointed that out.
Jill,
I really like the quote you used by Marvell, showing his seize the day attitude towards love that seems to be always fleeting. Although I don't know if he thinks love is fleeting or lust.
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